Together with her characteristic debut Fantasy, Slovenian filmmaker Kukla transitions from short-form and music video work to long-form narrative with a challenge that extends thematically and stylistically from her earlier quick Sisters.
Developed over a number of years and written throughout residencies, business work, and being pregnant, Fantasy combines a collaborative rehearsal-driven course of with a visible language knowledgeable by Kukla’s background in audiovisual media.
Set in opposition to a post-Yugoslav backdrop, the movie follows a gaggle of younger ladies navigating id, gender roles, and regional historical past.
Spoken in 5 languages and drawing on blended cultural backgrounds, Fantasy makes use of a gradual shift in tone and palette to mark private and narrative transformations. The director’s methodology contains open-form scripting, energetic actor enter, and a visible technique designed to help emotional and thematic developments.
In the dialogue with Screen Anarchy, Kukla and solid members Sarah Al Saleh, Alina Juhart, and Mina Milovanović discuss the movie’s multi-year improvement, the impression of its rehearsal methodology, and its engagement with matters similar to gender expression, regional id, and the position of music and sound in story building.
Screen Anarchy: What have been a few of the inspirations behind the script, significantly as you have been approaching its creation?
Kukla: Proper, so I suppose it began with the music video section, which sparked some recollections for me. I started writing a script for a brief movie Sisters, however I didn’t present it to most of the actors. I simply guided them by means of the scenes. Mia Skrbinac was the just one who knew the script, and that’s as a result of I wrote the position particularly for her. She was the solely skilled actress concerned.
Once we have been creating the quick movie, it was such an intense course of, and it actually outlined all of us in a approach. I assumed, “Okay, now I’m prepared for the characteristic movie.” Initially, I solely wished to make the characteristic movie, however I simply didn’t have the expertise. I used to be so afraid of working with a protracted type. So, I started writing the script for Fantasy, and it took years.
I labored on it in between music movies and commercials. I would write every time I may, at airports, lodge lobbies, wherever I had a free second. I lastly completed it at the Cinéfondation residence in Cannes, and then I bought pregnant. Nonetheless, I saved working on it, proper up till the capturing began.
For me, the script is all the time an open type. That’s simply how I work. I would like the actors to collaborate, no matter whether or not they’re seasoned professionals or first-time actors. I actually attempt to provide them house to allow them to contribute. They need to specific the traces in their very own phrases. I’m on the lookout for that pure expression.
As the actresses talked about, we had many alternative rehearsals, however the key factor was bonding. That’s after I knew we have been prepared for the scenes. I all the time really feel like a first-time director earlier than each challenge, and I’ve been energetic in this discipline for ten years.
However I nonetheless have the similar quantity of worry and pleasure earlier than each challenge. It’s like this each time. So, this was a really collaborative course of, and in the finish, after all, the movie is born once more in the enhancing room. However it was intense and not all the time straightforward.
You can have tackled the matter by means of a extra conventional Jap or Central European social realist lens, however you selected a extra magical realist method. Why did you determine to go together with that model?
Kukla: Nicely, it is very pure for me. It is simply how I see and course of the world. It’s how I specific myself. I’ve all the time had a daring visible language, however I all the time need it to serve the story. I’m not a formalist. I’m very visible, however I consider the type ought to help the content material and the story. It feels natural to me.
For instance, with Sisters, we used huge lenses, even for close-ups, as a result of we wished to emphasise the empty house. However with Fantasy, we bought nearer to the characters. We used a particular lens, this previous Canon lens, to get that dreamy really feel.
It was necessary to seize that fantasy feeling all of us have once we shut our eyes and take into consideration an excellent life. It’s additionally how I see the lens once we fall in love or discover new elements of ourselves. Every little thing was very thought out, the symbols, the particulars, the composition. Every little thing has a function.
The movie’s shade palette and lighting remind me of your music video background. Do you see that as a part of your signature model?
Kukla: I don’t draw back from my music video background. I do know some filmmakers have this prejudice in opposition to music movies, however I see it as an equally legitimate artwork type, a reputable department of movie artwork. I actually get pleasure from the hybridity that occurs whenever you deliver that background into filmmaking.
As for the shade palette, I like social realism, however after working in our area for some time, I used to be a bit uninterested in it. I didn’t do it deliberately to deliver freshness to the style. It simply got here out naturally.
The evolution of the story actually wanted this method. The visible model evolves with the narrative. To me, the essential visible query was easy methods to transition from grey to lilac. These two colours symbolize one thing in my mind, that’s how I course of them. So, for me, it’s all about getting the characters out of that gray concrete world and into one thing extra colourful and incredible.
Alina Juhart
That shift from grey to lilac is a robust visible motif in your movie.
Kukla: Sure, and I wished to play with the angles too, how shut we get to the characters and the place we place the digicam. Take Jasna’s mom, Adina, she’s all the time shot from the similar angle. That was intentional. It’s her throne, her place, and it’s a reminiscence that retains repeating. It’s a visible image for her character’s place in the story.
But in addition, the sound in your movie is kind of outstanding. May you share what the concept behind the music was?
Kukla: That comes from my background, really. I began doing music after I was round six or seven, and movie got here a bit later, after I was 11. So, music got here earlier than movie for me. The factor with sound is, I deal with it very meticulously as a result of it impacts us deeply. Sound enters our our bodies earlier than sight, it hits us emotionally instantly. I’m very conscious of that.
I exploit music not simply as a background or to raise the feelings, however typically as a further character. At instances, it’s a disruption of a state or perhaps a type of political or social commentary. For instance, in Fantasy, when she lip-syncs to this track referred to as Gotova, it’s a canopy of an enormous Balkan track. The lyrics speak about a girl writing her testomony as a result of the man doesn’t love her anymore. It actually encapsulates the frame of mind in the Balkans, so I assumed it was necessary to incorporate that.
I labored with composer Relja Ćupić as a result of I didn’t wish to do the music myself. I actually wished another person to deliver their very own freshness and uniqueness. He blended up to date sound with the Balkan melos I wanted.
And with sound designer Julij Zornik, he’s a legend in our area, we paid such shut consideration to the particulars of the sound. It was essential for me that all the things felt natural, that it wasn’t gimmicky. It’s not one thing you all the time hear, however one thing you are feeling.
You talked about turbo folks earlier than. May you make clear?
Kukla: We do use turbo folks songs, which is a style from the former Yugoslavia. It’s fairly related to the political state of the area.
So, in a optimistic or detrimental sense?
Kukla: Nicely, it relies upon on your perspective. They’re not protest songs in any respect, really. I feel they have been extra like a sedative for the nation. However they’re an attention-grabbing phenomenon as a result of individuals actually connect with them, though they is likely to be ashamed to confess it.
At one level, Serbia was fully immersed in turbo folks, and the total Balkans adopted. What I discover fascinating about it’s the lyrics, they’re typically a few lady as a sufferer or a martyr of unrequited love. This actually spoke to me as a robust reflection on the place of ladies in the Balkans.
It’s additionally attention-grabbing as a result of whereas the lyrics painting ladies as victims, the ladies in the movies are sometimes portrayed as hypersexualized. That contradiction, that advanced illustration, is one thing that intrigued me. And that’s why I integrated a few of these songs.
When briefly mentioned the male and feminine facet in phrases of Carl Gustav Jung´s animus and anima earlier than the interview, you talked about you wished so as to add one thing. May you elaborate on that?
Kukla: Sure, I used to be intrigued whenever you introduced up Jung, as a result of my greatest good friend, he’s a psychologist and astrologer, he’s actually into Jungian principle. He watched the movie and mentioned one thing actually attention-grabbing. He mentioned that whenever you’re born a person, you simply are a person, however whenever you’re born a girl, it’s important to change into a girl. The animus is simply the animus, however the anima has to change into the anima. I liked that concept, and it actually resonated with me.
For all the ladies in the movie, they’re, in a approach, changing into ladies, no matter how they have been born. Sina, for instance, has this sturdy want to be a boy due to her father’s expectations. I used to be actually enjoying with that notion, exhibiting that many people wrestle with our id. It’s a means of transformation, of changing into. That’s the Jungian thought I wished to discover in the movie.
You talked about Yugoslavia, how does the historical past and the politics of Yugoslavia relate to the story of FANTASY?
Kukla: It’s deeply related to the current. The characters are from blended households, one is Bosnian, one is Serbian, one is Albanian. For instance, Mihrije is Albanian. So, we have now 5 languages in the movie. It’s a mirrored image of the area’s fractured historical past and its ongoing penalties. For somebody exterior the area, it may appear advanced, however to me, it’s all related.
Characters in the movie communicate in 5 languages?
Kukla: Yeah, 5 languages. So, I do know that to somebody who’s international, the distinction won’t be that noticeable, however to us, it’s very clear. They’re always mixing languages in the movie. I wished to painting that feeling, particularly as they develop up in this type of… sq., the place there’s nonetheless a robust custom. That’s why the setting is so necessary, and additionally, they go to Macedonia, which was a part of the former Yugoslavia. In a approach, time feels caught there, particularly in that city.
For me, this displays my very own expertise as a second-generation immigrant. My dad and mom are Macedonian, however I grew up in Slovenia. It’s a wierd feeling as a result of I’ve inherited this nostalgia for a rustic I’ve by no means lived in, neither Yugoslavia nor Macedonia.
Once I go there, I’m a stranger, however I additionally don’t match in in Slovenia. And the actresses felt this too. All of them come from blended backgrounds, and we actually wished to mirror that have. It’s complicated at instances, nevertheless it additionally provides us freedom as a result of we don’t maintain on to any inflexible nationalistic id.
You talked about you bought pregnant earlier than ending the script. Did this alteration something about the approach you approached the movie?
Kukla: Lots. It was very direct. Once I was pregnant, I used to be nonetheless working on the movie, and then my son was born only a few months earlier than we began prepping. By the time he was one, we have been already capturing. So, I had him with me on set all the time. My husband is the director of pictures Lazar Bogdanović, so it was actually an intense household challenge. Our son even seems in the movie as an additional in one scene.
I’ve to be sincere, at first, I felt responsible about getting pregnant throughout such an intense interval of preparation. I had this sense like, “Oh no, I’ve messed all the things up.” However then I noticed that it occurred for a cause. It gave me the likelihood to expertise firsthand what it’s wish to be a mom in at present’s world, and that broadened my perspective on femininity, womanhood, and the place of ladies in society.
I noticed how, in the movie trade, individuals congratulate you whenever you’re pregnant, however then after you give delivery, a lot of them simply disappear. It’s like we’re seen as burdens as soon as we have now kids, though we deliver life into the world.
However you realize, it additionally empowered me. I had individuals at movie festivals make inappropriate feedback about my being pregnant, however I didn’t let it deliver me down. After all, my son is my precedence, however Fantasy is my baby too. It’s a shared challenge for everybody concerned.
It was a priceless expertise, and I really feel that nobody could make me a sufferer until I allow them to. After all, apart from excessive circumstances like battle, however I’m not delusional about that. In the finish, the expertise was empowering, and I consider it made me stronger.
What drove you to the script? For those who noticed the script earlier than, that was like the willpower to hitch the challenge or due to the earlier collaboration and, you realize, how you bought on board? And what have been your preliminary ideas about the script?
Sarah Al Saleh: I feel, yeah, it was it was the entire course of that started with the quick film Sister in 2019 and sure, it was like an extension, it was like this huge means of how a lot… six, seven years that for me it was my first position in the quick film, like ever performed as an actress. And it was with we three sisters. Did not know the script, I imply, Mia did, however us two didn’t, so all the things was very natural.
And we simply, you realize, at the second I met Kukla, I believed in her imaginative and prescient, like, actually. And I simply let myself, you realize, in with all my id as Sarah additionally and in fantasy it was like simply an extension of this, but additionally a stronger affect and course of as a result of fantasy was concerned and it actually modified our id in the film and additionally, like, for me, if I can say for myself additionally out of the film, for myself it actually formed me.
Alina Juhart: I feel Fantasy, for me, truthfully, after I was first approached by the individuals, like, I didn’t consider they’ll contact you for one thing severe, however I simply didn’t anticipate it. I used to be again with that at the moment part of a music present as a result of I’m a singer and it was when it bought actual was really after I met Kukla, as a result of we have been speaking and she mentioned, “You’re really saying some sentences from the script.”
And nonetheless, I wasn’t positive I’m gonna do it, as a result of, you realize, you don’t know what it’s about, and for me particularly, it’s like if I don’t really feel it, I actually must really feel all the things. And if it doesn’t really feel proper, like, you can provide me an Oscar, but when it’s not me, I don’t want that.
Sarah Al Saleh
You imply like the script, or the individuals concerned, the crew?
Alina Juhart: Every little thing. However first, like, the first expertise was with Kukla and I used to be like, I imply, love with this lady. Like, we went residence as a result of we are literally neighbors in Belgrade. And we went residence collectively, and it was like this stunning expertise, and then I bought the script. And I used to be crying a lot, I needed to learn it once more, like, instantly, as a result of I needed to name myself and it was the signal that I simply must do it.
Then I met Sarah for the first time, and there was the chemistry there and then I met the ladies, and it was like, you realize, I used to be simply telling…We have been simply speaking yesterday as a result of yesterday morning we have been all in my lodge room at the finish, preparing collectively as a result of it is ou, we have now chemistry on movie, but additionally there may be chemistry behind the scenes, like actual chemistry. And with Kukla, like the means of all the things was onerous.
Why was it onerous?
Alina Juhart: As a result of it was therapeutic, you realize? You go to the elements of your self the place it’s important to be susceptible, it’s uncooked, it’s every kind of feelings. However, you realize, if something fantasy has taught me, that’s that there’s magnificence in the ache and ache in the magnificence, you realize?
So it’s, I feel, it goes for all of us as a result of, like, being bare for me, particularly for each lady, for each man, however for me it’s one other degree that I wasn’t even conscious of whereas I used to be studying the script, that I’m gonna must do. And so that you’re simply mainly going step-by-step revealing all these layers, and it’s necessary. It’s taught me loads about myself, about the ladies, about life in basic.
Seems like a remedy.
Sarah Al Saleh: Precisely. And for myself additionally, I didn’t anticipate to have this course of in actual life parallel to the position. After which I came upon in between the course of, wow, this position is definitely similar to me. After which it’s important to handle to separate them.
However as a result of I used to be appearing for the first time, I couldn’t do that. And I additionally, like Alina mentioned, I simply put myself in, I used to be bare completely with my feelings, with all the things, and then I used to be wow. And after I noticed the movie the first time, I lastly realized that I healed part of me all through the six years of constructing these two movie and the entire course of.
Sarah Al Saleh: I used to be crying thrice in between the film and after the film. I wish to name my mother as a result of the factor is that, sure, I came upon yesterday that part of me grew, you realize, my id formed inside this film, as Sarah, you realize, and I lastly let go. Like with the position, I let go plenty of issues that I achieved in my progress. I feel all of us had this intense course of discovering our, additionally our voice and our id and our confidence out of the film as a result of, yeah.
Alina Juhart: However it was truthfully due to the course of that took our suppliers for us as a result of it was like plenty of the, a giant a part of our preparations wasn’t written in the script. It was us watching the movie collectively, a film collectively, or listening to a track or doing these workouts the place we bought to know one another on a private degree.
You already know, it wasn’t like we have been only a vessel, studying the script, being so… There was one train the place we performed one another’s roles. Like, how would Mina… Mine was Mithre, I feel. So, you realize, it’s attention-grabbing as a result of it’s important to consider the different individual’s feelings. So, it’s very nice to get to know one another in that approach, and that’s why I feel we bonded a lot, and that’s the place the chemistry is from.
However did these workouts have an effect on the script or on the traces?
Sarah Al Saleh: For positive, for positive. Each train you gave us, it completely made sense. So, we understood one another extra, like all the roles inside the movie and additionally how every considered one of us would react to sure issues. We now have completely different characters and completely different approaches and completely different feelings, like reactions to feelings.
Does that imply that you just modified the dialogue of your character after you have been role-playing?
Sarah Al Saleh: Certain.
Alina Juhart: And in addition it was very good as a result of the issues that have been occurring to us privately throughout the course of, they’d typically mirror what we wanted to translate into our roles.
Synchronicity, proper?
Alina Juhart and Sarah Al Saleh: Precisely!
Sarah Al Saleh: So this was loopy, too. Like, this was occurring, that is why I mentioned like I grew out as Sarah as a result of I healed some elements of me as Sarah that I noticed in Mithrie, you realize, that I used to be additionally missing in actual life.
Mina Milovanović
What did you consider the script whenever you learn it the final time?
Mina Milovanović: Okay, so for the first movie, what introduced me to the challenge was positively the cash. I used to be 17 and broke, and the shoot was 4 days and the pay was nice. So, and then for the second time, what introduced me again was the connections I made. Actually, it was the connections I made.
Alina Juhart: The factor is that us 4, we’re so completely different, like personally, however there’s simply, we have now to respect each considered one of us as a result of we’re so in ourselves, you realize? Like, Mina is Mina and we love her for that. Sarah is gorgeous in her world, and Mia is mother, she is Yasna.
The factor is that these ladies knew one another earlier than me. Like, they filmed collectively, they knew one another for 5 years, I feel. Then I bought in the center, which wasn’t onerous. However it was attention-grabbing, you realize, like 4 individuals. I imply, we had conversations with the two of us, me and Kukla, however with them, it was attention-grabbing as a result of I needed to change into part of the group which was already shaped, which isn’t all the time the best factor, nevertheless it was naturally.
Sarah Al Saleh: It was natural.
Alina Juhart: It was natural. Every little thing was natural, like the connections with each single considered one of them and the conversations we had aside from filming have been attention-grabbing. Mina is me as a result of I’m all the time provocative for Mina.
Me and Sarah are in actual life like we’re on the display however with out the kissing largely. And with Mina, there may be this connection that I had immediately. I genuinely know that I’ll be seeing these ladies performing some huge stuff in the future and I’m going to be the proudest, and I’m not even going to speak about Kukla.
Mina Milovanović: And Alina goes to get us there as a result of she’s an incredible supervisor. She’s all the things. Like, something you want, she’ll simply make it occur, proper?
Sarah Al Saleh: She is going to make it occur.
You all talked about your characters and the particular person personalities and the way it helped you to develop, however there may be like this matter concerning the Balkan Patriarchy. I’d possibly be curious the way you relate to this larger matter?
Mina Milovanović: I don’t suppose that my character would not contribute as a lot in phrases of pushing in opposition to the patriarchy, as a result of even in the starting, when she meets Fantasy, she’s type of standoffish in the direction of this. She’s probably not into the entire factor, and I feel it even reveals extra in the direction of the finish of the movie the place she type of desires to be extra female, to enchantment to the boy she desires to impress.
So, I’d say, truthfully, it would not push again on the patriarchy in the movie as a lot as individuals would anticipate scenes together with her character to, however positively I’d say she embodies how plenty of ladies act, the place they wish to type of enchantment to the male gaze, proper? Or what a girl must be.
However there’s a motif in the movie concerning tomboyishness. How did you understand it whenever you realized about it being such a outstanding facet of the movie?
Mina Milovanović: Actually, it didn’t do something to me personally as a result of even in actual life, I’m a bit extra tomboyish. And I do know plenty of ladies which might be tomboyish. And I feel it is far more accepted even in actual life than in the movie.
However in the movie, I feel it went a bit, it was proven off as excessive, I suppose. As a result of even, you realize, like, they do not enchantment to, like, any gender position. Or simply fully reverse. If we, as people, we have now masculine traits, we have now female traits.
In the movie in basic, I feel it was proven properly as a result of it went to each extremes, which I actually, actually appreciated as a result of it was tremendous truthful. I feel it confirmed the excessive a part of somebody being fully in opposition to their gender position and somebody tremendous dedicated to the, like, patriarchy gender position, proper?
Sarah Al Saleh: With Mithrie, I feel it is very attention-grabbing, there’s two issues: conventional expectations from her and additionally the seek for her id, as a result of she would not know freedom like in this fashion. I imply, she’s being raised in a household that expects her to be married and she’s all the time doing stuff that her dad and mom are telling her.
I do not suppose she really is aware of freedom or is aware of what she desires. So, she’s in search of id and together with this, on her path, it involves gender and sexuality search. And after I meet Fantasy, I imply, that is my interpretation, however I feel I fell in love together with her as a result of she, I noticed an individual that knew precisely what she desires, and she has this sturdy id. And I didn’t know what I would like and who I’m, and so I feel I fell in love with this state of being that I noticed in her.
I’m a tomboy and I’ve the respect for these two different sisters, so Mithrie may be very labile. Having these guidelines that we created, and I’m identical to following them. However then it’s like, oh, possibly I don’t need this, possibly I would like one thing else. I see this person who is aware of precisely what she desires. And I’m simply I don’t suppose, I feel sexuality simply comes with that, like this search of what I would like or…
Alina Juhart: I feel for Fantasy, it’s like the factor that Mina talked about, really. I feel that Kukla’s approach of presenting the reactions of the ladies to Fantasy have been precisely what me and Alina have had these in life, and I feel it presents it so effectively as a result of for an viewers member, I’m positive everybody at the starting, like, besides possibly individuals from the LGBTQIA+ neighborhood, aside from them, Fantasy and Alina, we’re each at shock at the starting, however then we simply fell in love with us.
However it actually is like that, as a result of I really feel prefer it’s necessary for them to have this response, as a result of the viewers connects with it, and then by them opening as much as me and Mithrie falling in love, Mina falling in love with Alina, Mina with Fantasy. (laughs) I’m simply being provocative a bit. I feel it’s necessary to have this distinction.
At the finish of the day, lwhen you meet an individual that basically lives her full potential for me. … I’m from Slovenia, which is like semi-acceptable, and I moved to Belgrade, which is a patriarchy at its works. However you realize, throw me to the wolves and I’m gonna be the chief of the pack.
I by no means felt extra like a girl than I really feel in Belgrade as a result of, as a result of the polarity of the patriarchy provides you is the factor that makes you stand out much more and to type your self like actually and your character. Each personally and in the movie, you may construct it as a result of it makes you stronger and it makes you notice much more like.
Me in New York, I’d be like primary, you realize. However in Belgrade, I can actually stand out in the sense of simply actually being myself and actually questioning myself each single day, who and what am I and eager to change into the greatest model of myself as a result of I really feel like each step that I make is watched and I actually must wish to be the greatest model of myself in order to current it in the proper approach.
Photos courtesy of Locarno Film Competition
